Is Terry Really the Reincarnation
of Saint Catherine of Siena?

Monday  1.23.2012

Audio Link - http://dl.dropbox.com/u/118439/2012calls/mon_bbscall_2012-01-23.mp3

Host: Wynn Free

Channeled by Terry Brown

Transcribed by Connie O'Brien

Edited by Terry Brown, Valerie Hawes and Cindy Izzo

Formatted and sent by Gary Brownlee

Wynn:  It’s Monday, January 23^rd, it’s the big year, 2012; we’re Wynn Free, Terry Brown and our helpers, who hold the energy on the conference line.

I picked a topic tonight; I thought of doing this for quite some time. We’ve done shows before on the story of Terry and Saint Catherine, but I’ve never actually picked up the book called Saint Catherine’s Dialogues with God. Its 398 pages and I’m going to read some of it tonight.

Saint Catherine was a young lady. The interesting thing to look at is when we think of people who have become famous or known in history or recognized, it’s hard to realize they were human. It seems like there was something special about them; they could do things that other people couldn’t do; they exhibited their talents.

When I look at it myself I see that someone may come into this realm that has some exceptional ability but until they have the right life-circumstance, they may never exhibit their exceptional abilities and they end up having a hum-drum life; they die young.

So it’s not to exalt somebody because otherwise we don’t want to talk about it. There are people who would exalt Terry. I try to make myself un-exaltable, so we get around that. Terry’s shy and so if somebody starts to exalt her and think, “I’m sitting here with Saint Catherine”, it’s very uncomfortable because Terry is not Saint Catherine and when she was Saint Catherine she wasn’t a saint.

She was probably this person that would go into a church, a monastery and whoever was in the monastery could hold the space for her to bring through messages. For all I know, I could have been there. You never know; I seem to be a good space-holder for that.

It was the circumstance where she was 14 years old and she would show up in the monastery and somehow or another it got started. I don’t know how. That’s interesting, how things get started. That’s always a momentous moment, as in the story of Daphne and myself when we were driving to Portland and I said, “Does anybody want to talk to me?”

Keep in mind I have known Terry for at least thirty years now. When I first met Terry—I’ll just tell you how that occurred. I was at a point where my world had fallen apart and I needed to make money. The way I was making money at that time was doing work for this fellow who had this big hotel chain and he went bankrupt. When he went bankrupt, all my eggs were in that basket.

I had this idea that I could do anything; I was very confident in myself. I said, “All these people are doing multi-level marketing.” Somebody had given me this tablet that said it boosted your energy and I put it under my tongue and I thought it worked and I said, “Boy, this would be easy to sell.” So I went down to a meeting of this company that was selling flower pollen.

Here was the person talking at the meeting who was so sincere and so passionate; there was no multi-level marketing hype about it. She believed in the product and she didn’t look like a seasoned MLM speaker, but she really won the audience. She kept looking at me like she wanted to get to know me.

Terry:  I kept looking at you like, “There’s something about you.”

Wynn:  I didn’t really respond very well at the time, but I did become a distributor for that company; ended up making a little bit of money.

I knew Terry for many years before I discovered she could channel. In fact, I thought she was pretty wacky. Can I say that? I can say that. People, you can say I’m wacky; we’re both wacky. You have to be wacky to do this. I thought Terry was wacky and she had all these crazy ideas.

At one point she was fascinated with channeling and she had discovered this woman who was holding little sessions in her home in Culver City and Terry would go to her sessions. One time she had Terry go up and suddenly Terry was channeling. I didn’t see it; I wanted nothing to do with it.

On a subconscious level I was very nervous about allowing myself to become exposed to channeling, because I felt that it could tempt someone, could tempt me to give up my power. If a source that was channeling, I didn’t know if it was real; I didn’t know there were beings in other dimensions.

The only person I was ever was really influenced by was Edgar Cayce and that’s because Edgar Cayce was so validatable; he wasn’t just coming through and talking about love and light. He could be so precise and so accurate and I read many books about him with excerpts from his readings.

If you’re dealing with a positive Source, they are not interested in just talking to talk. They would understand that there are a lot of cautions as we always say about channeling. It’s so easy to get a negative source or a mixed-polarity source and it often starts out with a connection with a positive Source that goes sour.

They would have to look at people very carefully if they were going to decide to talk through them and even then they’re probably still taking a risk. They know that if you’re going to go around and say, “We’ve got this voice that says they’re the Elohim talking to me”, you’ve already created a hierarchy or a predisposition for someone to give up their power, because the Elohim is so highly recognized historically; it’s a word that’s been used.

I really couldn’t understand why they identifed themselves to me with the name Elohim; I would have probably preferred that they said they were the Council of Light. We know other people who channel the Council of Light or the Light Brigade or whatever and we think it’s the Elohim, but they don’t say it.

To them it’s not a matter of how they’re named; it’s a matter of how they can be of influence; that’s for both group souls. How can they be of influence in this realm? It’s a challenge to be of influence here, because you have to be willing to stick your neck out and talk about things that are so out there, controversial, that challenge people’s reality systems. Then you have to be very highly intended so that you don’t start out positive and end up compromised.

Obviously Saint Catherine was very much using the Jesus template. What I see, this is my take; if anyone is highly religious, I don’t think this is in conflict with that, but it’s a different way of looking at it. According to our questions and answers, my cross-references with David Wilcock and Carla Rueckert, when Jesus said Father, it was the Ra group that was communicating with Him. In our channelings they said it doesn’t matter.

In what we call The One Infinite Creator, it’s all of us; it’s part of us; we are that. For The One Infinite Creator to communicate with us it would have to separate from being The One Infinite Creator, because it’s all The One Infinite Creator. The Elohim are aspects of The One Infinite Creator; you and I are aspects of The One Infinite Creator. It’s the subsets of the aspects that are the emissaries at whatever level they come in to hold that space.

Jesus was an aspect of The One Infinite Creator and he was directly connected to the Ra group. As I studied all of this, which is a whole other story, the Ra group had carefully planned the entry of Jesus into this realm. It’s not different and this doesn’t supersede the religious point of view; it includes it; it’s just a little bigger. All this stuff we’re talking about is very sophisticated, compared to what people could actually accept at different times.

With regard to religion, some people make connections to Spirit through religion and some people don’t; the religion becomes the end instead of the means. As I would look at it, the Ra group was attempting to create a person who could hold the space, or bring a person into this realm who could hold the space of multi-dimensional consciousness.

He could hold the space of their chakras being opened, their DNA being opened; and that when someone does that, other people feel it and they start evolving their DNA. That’s how people grow down here; they don’t grow because they believe in something. They grow because they’ve been in the presence of fields that are higher than theirs and those fields start to teach them how to evolve their own fields.

If Jesus was doing that and then Saint Catherine came in sometime about 1366, what is she going to say that is going to be so profound? How does it fit in with how we know the Ra group has communicated in current time? I have the book here and I marked a few pages; I’m not sure what page I’m going to read. Keep in mind we have 400 pages here and we don’t know that it’s all the Ra group; we don’t even know that it’s all positive. You will have to make your own judgment.

As soon as you give up your power to “Uh oh – it’s the Ra group” or “Uh oh – it’s Jesus” and you start believing everything, then you’re now putting it in your mind and it’s not going into your heart and your system.

You start following rules, you start doing rituals and you think that’s enough to “save you”. Maybe it is for some people; maybe it works for some people. But in general, it’s that aspect of human nature that wants to follow an authority, instead of following their own authority.

It is a little complicated; because when people are growing and when they’re clearing a lot of negative patterns inside themselves, sometimes they have to stay pointed at something for a while to help clear their patterns. They have to stay in that field of energy until they become strong enough to hold it inside themselves. Ultimately the goal is to have your own authority, to have your own Divine connection.

There is something that I have talked about or discovered and that’s the whole idea of authority. For most of my life I had a terrible problem with authority, I probably still do, because it’s so easy to disempower yourself and surrender to someone else. I’ve discovered the things that work best; the things that you can learn from, to develop your own sense of authority.

One thing I’ve learned since we’ve been doing these calls is, in essence, I’m the authority on these calls. I pick the topics; I decide who I can delegate anything to and I’m in charge, because somebody has to pay attention to things to keep them from getting corrupted.

What I noticed is that if I delegate something to someone, there are some people who will do everything I say and need a lot of hand-holding to do things and there are other people that are totally independent. I’ve learned that there is Divine authority and there is human authority. If a guy owns a business, he’s the authority of that business; he decides who is going to work for him and who doesn’t. If you have a home, you’re the authority of your home; you decide who you would let into it and who you wouldn’t, in most cases.

That is nature of this realm; there are domains of authority. If you’re living in a city and the city has laws, you are under the domain and the authority of those laws. If you belong to a certain church, you are under that authority. You can’t get away from authority; that is part of this realm. The key is: Can you operate from Divine Authority? Can you connect with the Law of One so that even when you’re under the auspices of someone else’s authority, it doesn’t trap you? You can use that positioning just to be of higher service.

Some people who are working with this work we’re doing do that. They’re very independent; they’re not depending on me. If we talk, it’s a co-creative conversation; it’s not like following orders. Some people can’t develop that kind of relationship. At least they can’t at this point or right at this moment; everyone can ultimately. It’s a good thing to aim for; look at your own aspect of needing authority.

If you notice, our Sources are very careful not to take away your authority. When you ask a question they give a lot of information and then they’ll say, “But you decide” and they’re consistent in that; so on many aspects, they’ve developed a lot of trust between me and them because they are that way.

I wanted to read a couple of things from Saint Catherine because if you’ve read The Reincarnation of Edgar Cayce? and if you’ve read the Ra channelings in that, there is a similarity. Of course they’re always under the auspices of the church, so they have to honor the church and the way people have adopted Jesus as a reference point for higher connection. If somebody does that, that’s okay.

I opened the page here. I opened a page that kind of is what we’re talking about. Here we go:

“There are many who begin their climb so sluggishly and pay what they owe me in such bits and pieces, so indifferently and ignorantly, that they quickly fall by the way. The smallest wind makes them hoist their sails and turn back. They have climbed only imperfectly to the first stair of the Christ crucified and so they never reach the second, which is that of his heart.

“There are others who become faithful servants. They serve me with love, rather than that slavish fear which serves only for fear of punishment.

“But their love is imperfect for they serve me for their own profit or for the delight and pleasure they find in me. Do you know how they show that their love is imperfect? By the way they act when they are deprived of the comfort they find in me.

“And they love their neighbors with the same imperfect love. This is why their love is not strong enough to last. No, it becomes lax and often fails. It becomes lax toward me when sometimes, to exercise them in virtue and to lift them up out of their imperfection, I take back my spiritual comfort and let them experience struggles and vexations.

“I do this to bring them to perfect knowledge of themselves, so that they will know that of themselves they have neither existence nor any grace. I want them in time of conflict, to take refuge in me by seeking me and knowing me as their benefactor, in true humility seeking me alone. This is why I give them these troubles. And though I may take away their comfort, I do not take away grace.

“But it makes such as these grow lax, and they turn back with impatient spirit. Sometimes they slack off their exercises in all sorts of ways, often saying to themselves under pretense of virtue: "This activity is not worthwhile”, because they feel bereft of their selfish spiritual comfort.

“They act like the imperfect who have not even removed the film of spiritual selfishness from their eye's pupil, most holy faith. For if they had in truth removed it they would see that everything comes from me; that not a leaf falls from the tree apart from my providence and that I give and permit what I do for their sanctification so that they may have the final good for which I created all of you.

Wynn:  Are you there, Terry?

Terry:  Yes.

Wynn:  Are there any further edits necessary?

Terry:  No, I think that’s pretty perceptive.

Wynn:  If you go back and read The Reincarnation of Edgar Cayce? I have a little bit of reaction when I read that when it sounds like whoever is speaking through is saying stuff like “I’m going to make things bad for you; it’s my decision”. That makes you say “Who are they to make things bad for me?” In The Reincarnation of Edgar Cayce? there was a thing that said, let’s see if I can quote this, you get lessons and when you learn your lessons you move onto the next step.

But if you haven’t learned the lesson you get increased catalysts and things get tougher. If you don’t learn the lesson at that point it gets even worse because there is a certain energy you’re putting out and things keep getting worse until you change the energy.

The Ra group is part of our energetic flow into higher dimensions, as I see it. Let me try another one here. There’s another place where they talk about the church. Here’s a good section. You know this probably sounds different from the Elohim.

“They ought to know themselves enough to consider themselves unworthy of the tremendous mystery they have received from me. But they do just the opposite; for, bloated with pride as they are, they never have their fill of gobbling up earthly riches and the pleasures of the world while they are stingy, greedy and avarice toward the poor.

“Because of this wretched pride and avarice born of their sensual selfishness, they have abandoned the care of souls and give themselves over completely to guarding and caring for their temporal possessions. They leave behind my sheep whom I had entrusted to them, like sheep without a shepherd. They neither pasture nor feed them, either spiritually or materially.

“Spiritually, they do administer the sacraments of the holy Church (the power of which sacraments can neither be taken away nor lessened by any idea of sin of theirs) but they do not feed them with sincere prayers, with hungry longing for their salvation, with holy and honorable living, nor do they feed their poor subjects with temporal assistance.”

Wynn:  Let me look at some of those words again; I want to repeat that.

“…with hungry longing for their salvation—with hungry longing for their salvation”.

Think of the people around you. Could you say that you have hungry longing for their salvation? Could you say that you can make a difference to those people so they can graduate this realm, are you letting them know you care? It’s really an amazing thing to say, “…hungry longing for their salvation”.

“I told you they were to distribute their material goods in three portions:

1) One for their own needs,

2) One for the poor, and

3) One for the use of the Church. 

“But these do the opposite. Not only do they not give what they are in duty bound to give to the poor, but they rob them through simony and their hankering after money, selling the grace of the Holy Spirit.

“Some are so mean that they are unwilling to give to the needy the very things I have given them freely, so that they might give them to you, unless their hands are filled (with money) or they are plentifully supplied with gifts (in return). They love their subjects for what they can get from them and no more.

“They spend all the goods of the Church on nothing but clothes for their bodies. They go about fancily dressed, not like clerics and religious, but like lords or court lackeys. They are concerned about having grand horses, gold and silver and well-adorned homes.”

Wynn:  Keep in mind they seem to be addressing here those people that have positions in the church and are supporting themselves in a very high lifestyle from their church positions.

“They have and keep what they ought not, all with huge vanity. Their heart babbles out its disordered vanity and their whole desire is feasting, making a god of their bellies, eating and drinking inordinately. So they soon fall into impure and lustful living.

“Woe, woe, to their wretched lives! They devour the souls who were bought with Christ's Blood, eating them up in so many wretched ways and feeding their own children with what belongs to the poor.

“O, you temples of the devil! I appointed you to be earthly angels in this life, but you are devils who have taken up the devil’s work! The devils dispense darkness from what is theirs and administer excruciating torment.

“With their vexatious temptations they lure souls away from grace, to drag them down to the guilt of deadly sin. They exert every effort they can in this. Although no sin can touch the soul who does not want it, they nevertheless do all they can.

“Thus these wretches, unworthy of being called ministers, are devils incarnate, for by their sins they have patterned themselves after the devil. They perform their task of administering me, the true Light, out of the darkness of deadly sin and they administer to their subjects and to others the darksomeness of their perverted and evil lives.

“They are the cause of confusion and suffering to the spirits and those who see their disorderly living. Indeed, they are the cause of confusion and suffering to the conscience of those they succeed in dragging down from the state of grace and the way of truth, for by leading them into sin they make them walk in the way of falsehood.

“But those who follow them do not in fact have an excuse for their sin, for no one can be forced into deadly sin either by these visible devils or the invisible ones. No one ought to give attention to their lives or copy what they do. Still, as my truth admonished you in the holy Gospel, you should do as they tell you.

“This is the teaching given you in the mystic body of the holy Church, borne in Holy Scripture and brought to you by my trumpeters, the preachers whose duty it is to proclaim my word. But the woe that is their just dessert and their evil lives, you are not to imitate. Nor are you to punish them for in that you would offend me. Leave them their evil lives and take for yourselves their teaching. And leave their punishment to me, for I am the gentle eternal God and I reward everything good and punish every sin.

“Their dignity in being my ministers will not save them from my punishment. Indeed, unless they change their ways they will be punished more severely than all the others, because they have received more from my kindness.

“Having sinned so miserably, they are deserving of greater punishment.” So you see how they are devils, just as I told you that my chosen ones are angels on earth and do the work of the angels.”

Wynn:  Pretty intense. It’s 7:45; we don’t have a lot of time. Remember, when you have multi-dimensional consciousness speaking, you have different places coming on but here is the Source that created the church in order to lift people’s souls and finding that the people who were leading it were not doing a very good job. Its worth is still recognized by the Vatican, who may be in that same league of pomp and circumstance.

I don’t want to go any further over the deep edge on this. I’m just going to quickly see if we have any comment from our Sources. I probably went too long to get into this deeply, but I thought it was very enlightening to hear how this information was given through Saint Catherine. There are ways that it corresponds to the Ra material and the Wilcock material; I can see the resonance.

Father-Mother God, we ask for the Light to surround and protect Terry and myself and everyone listening and any negativity be taken to the higher realms of Light and transmuted for the highest good of all concerned. We see ourselves in the flow of energy coming from the center of the Universe, through the galaxies, through the Milky Way, through the solar system, through our bodies and into the earth. Right now, we invoke a group energy connection while maintaining the sovereign integrity of our souls. We invite those sources that are positive, service to others, honoring the Law of One to join with us as we create a protected space that only the positive has access to and anything not of that nature must leave now.

Do we have our Sources wanting to say hello and make any comments that they choose?

Ra’An:  Thank you. We greet you in the Love Light of The One Infinite Creator. We make contact with your group, each and everyone, who is listening or will listen in the future or who will read a transcript. It is our heart-felt thanks and appreciation that individuals are listening and we thank the technology that we may get words out to a larger group of people and we thank Wynn and Terry and Daphne for bringing this opportunity to the front. We thank people in the group and people who have been working in whatever occupation or job they have to bring such information to the public, to individuals.

There is another side; there is a home and in the home base when one is overly concerned about the pleasures of the earth plane and holding onto them, it is sometimes a shock when they lose these things. It isn’t that having these things is wrong; it is that knowing that they are temporal and they are passing and that the true fulfillment comes at a deeper level. 

These accoutrements to life make life easier and then when one puts all of their faith and all of their effort and their attention and hopes and joys and hopes of fulfillment in something that is so passing and fleeting that when they move to the higher dimension and they cannot take these things with them that they have come to enjoy and move into the higher enjoyments in the other side, the more balanced attributes that can be had on the other side.

 When one is in the earth realm and can balance love and caring for individuals rather than greediness and hopes and joys in the very temporal and passing things without opening their heart, then this can lead the individual into suffering when they pass to the other side.

Those are some of our initial comments. Do you have questions?

Wynn:  We don’t have any more questions tonight because we have to bring this to a close. Maybe we’ll ask some more questions next week on the connection between Saint Catherine and what I believe are the same Sources that are communicating to us.

Thank you so much for coming forth and trusting us with this dispensation of doing this. We would just say good evening for tonight and thank everyone who is on the call and everyone listening. We look forward to those of you that return on Wednesday, when we will be submitting your questions.

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